Stuck On Translation

[liralen]

I've been stuck and all you Bleach folks might be able to help me.

In the back of the Viz translation of the 18th book of the Bleach manga, there's a little extra that has the profiles of both Ukitake and Kyouraku.

The Viz translation for the American version says: "Second son of the high-ranking Kyouraku family. Born to a long line of martial artists, but hates academics and martial arts."

My beta has a French translation that says that Kyouraku is the 1st son of said family, and born to a long line of *artists*.

I'd love to know, from the folks in other countries, what *their* 18th volume says. Or, heck, if someone has the Japanese version and can answer, I'd be like ecstatic. Thanks!

Comments

[annieroo2.livejournal.com]

I downloaded the raws from Ju-Ni, so maybe if you post this in one or more of the communities you can get someone to translate it. I know it's not much, but hopefully it helps somewhat.

http://pics.livejournal.com/manage/pic?id=23

Sorry my html coding sucks, you'll have to click the link.

[liralen.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough that takes me to MY gallery... *laughs*

If you hover your mouse over the picture and do a right-click "Copy link address" and then paste it into a comment it'll be a link I can use. *grins*

[annieroo2.livejournal.com]

http://pics.livejournal.com/annieroo2/pic/0000tf4p

Please tell me this one worked because otherwise I'll just post it in my photobucket. At least from there I know what the hell to do with it.

[liralen.livejournal.com]

That worked beautifully!! Thank you!!

[liralen.livejournal.com]

I LOVE what you did though, and you're right... if I post that to the Shun/Uki community someone might take pity on me.

[annieroo2.livejournal.com]

You might also try Bleach fact and soul society, sometimes the bigger communities have more people who know Japanese.

[liralen.livejournal.com]

I tapped aruarian_dancer who can really read Japanese. And she wrote a lovely bit just recently on usage of Japanese (http://aruarian-dancer.livejournal.com/37504.html) in English fanfic... so... you can see the answer below.

THANK YOU!!

[7veilsphaedra.livejournal.com]

Kyouraku, an artist? That would be so cool! Even if it wasn't canon, it would be cool.

(Of course, most of the artists I know are the hardest-working people you could ever meet, so that doesn't really fit. But it's still a great character aspect.)

[liralen.livejournal.com]

It is! I suspect I'll be pulling in the whole tie between martial artists and arts and poetry and painting anyway... but I needed to know what his *family* was about before doing a whole chapter on THEM. Gods.

whew.

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

You may have an answer to this already, but the Japanese definitely says second son. He's born from a long line of 'people who excelled in the martial arts' but hates study and the martial arts.

The Japanese also adds the word 'bou' to 'second son'. It's the kanji for monk but is often used with the sense of 'little boy'. With the aristocracy, or more often rich merchant families, it has the connotation of 'indulged young master' or 'pampered scion' or, well, 'spoilt rich kid' but with a kind of affectionate nuance to it.

[liralen.livejournal.com]

Thank you very, very much!! I appreciate the help a lot, as I was finding myself about to write a whole chapter based off those lines, and I couldn't do it. *laughs*

Thank you for just settling it for me in my head. I love the last bit, too... as that's a nuance I really needed.

Thank you!!

[incandescens]

Ah! Thank you. Bad French translation. Shame on you. (Or possibly shame on me for not really going into the translation of "artistes".)

("Aine du clan Kyouraku, famille de la grande noblesse. Au depart, il vient d'une famille d'artistes, mais comme il detestait les etudes et les arts, ils en ont eu assez de le voir se conduire comme un bon a rien et l'ont fait entrer de force dans l'Academie de Yamamoto.")

[flemmings.livejournal.com]

Grande noblesse has such a ring. 'Upper aristocracy' isn't a patch on it.

The thing is that the penji made the kyou/ east of Kyouraku look very much like the kanji for 'word.' Had an interesting google experience with 'word pleasure' (the word does exist, just not in dictionaries) before my slow brain remembered the man had a last name.

[incandescens]

Haute noblesse is good, too. :)

[liralen.livejournal.com]

It's funny as I wasn't so worried about *which* was right... I could have gone with either and I like the idea of Shunsui being an artiste, but... it was just bugging me too much when I just didn't know which one it was. *laughs*

*hugs* So no shame. Just... realized it was just stopping me dead in my tracks when I didn't *know*.

[incandescens]

(hugs) Thanks. Sorry to have led you on the wrong track!

[aruarian-dancer.livejournal.com]

Hey, now that I looked at it more closely (forgive my earlier version because I don't read Bleach I'm ignorant of things related to the series, but I can certainly read Japanese.), it says, he is a "second born son of the Kyouraku family, which is from an upper level aristocracy". (Kyouraku just being his last name.) Also it says that he is "from the blood line that has excelled in martial arts". (Left to be interpreted by whoever reads it, I guess...) The kanji here apparently should be read "Kyouraku ke" (Kyouraku family) and not "kyouraku ka" (someone who is involved in whatever is "kyouraku". Because I have never heard of it except for a company called "Kyouraku Sangyou" which makes pachinko machines.)
Other than that, the scribbles say: "was not interested in academics or martial arts and never committed himself to anything, so was forced to attend ...you guys probably know where. Wears cheap women's kimono and obi, but the pin-wheel shaped kanzashi alone are of high quality." Funny.

The word "jinanbou", the second born son, can be a term of endearment, but more often, it is more cynically used to mean "spoiled brat from a rich family". Especially with the Japanese partiarchal custom being that it is the first born son who would carry on the family name, and therefore it is often assumed that all other male siblings don't have to bother themselves acting responsibly.

[liralen.livejournal.com]

Oh, *excellent*!!! that's exactly, exactly what I needed... thank you so much, and for finding out enough to get me what I needed and then some!

I had no idea that there was any connection to a pachinko machine company. THAT is a very fun thing to play with at some other time.

Kyouraku *is* pretty funny and endearing in his own way, and I *LOVE* the last paragraph all to pieces. That's exactly what I'd been working with...

It's so hard to base a whole chapter off two lines I knew I had no solid evidence as to the meaning of, so thank you, thank you, thank you!!

[aruarian-dancer.livejournal.com]

You're so welcome.

And I just realized that there was a typo in my comment. I meant to type "patriarchal"...hahaha. What a mess. Sometimes the figers move faster than the brain, I swear.